What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

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What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Tybreagus on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:56 am


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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Better Quell Jorel on Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 pm

I'll confess  I've had a numerous host of potential game scenarios buzzing in my head over the last few days. In fact, I've had this familiar line of events play out on a 24-hour Youtube loop in my brain.



If the Imperials were smart, they would pepper the ship with fire until until everything died. That would be the easy way out as opposed to just trying a boarding action. I mean it's not like there's really anything valuable inside the ship other than perhaps the ship itself.

Of all the things that could happen, Eric better not be planning for another Colonial vessel to "just be out there" or have a rescue ship drop out of jump. Let us remember that we are in a remote part of this system and the only reason we have all this attention is that we set off some EM pulses powerful enough for Sauron to see all the way back on Terra. And since we're in the New Detroit system, the Imperial presence would easily outgun any other Colonial ships that might be running on silent. (5,000 dtons anyone?) I mean, I'm not in control of the forces in motion here, but Eric really needs to tread carefully when considering what happens next at this juncture.

As for me, I'm not really worried. Actually, I'm surprised it's taken us this long to be surrounded by enemy forces, considering all the crazy risks we've taken in the past. We're long overdue to be taken prisoner by Sauronic forces and force-marched to Dol Goldur that we may all face the wrath of Goth Mog. Remember the ghosts of the pasts, dear friends.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Tybreagus on Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:38 pm

First of all, I apologize for slowing the game down with shopping and discussions of training skills.  I really enjoy gaming with you guys and it makes me sad I won’t be available on 3/4/2017.  It has been a bright spot in an otherwise extremely crappy 12 months.

I agree that getting caught or losing in a given situation is definitely a possibility and has happened on multiple occasions, i.e. getting arrested the last time we went to New Detroit, missing the concubine/spy on Emape, crashing our first ship on New Eden, the heroically pointless death of Rodrigo, etc.  The risk of losing, and catastrophically, is a very real threat in this game.  I think it make the game better to have it, when it isn’t arbitrary.  I agree that getting captured isn't the worst thing in the world and can offer exciting possibilities.  

As an aside, my CHARACTER is bat-shit crazy, knows he's responsible for multiple assassinations, but can't remember who they were or which side they were for/against, and has running/hiding from the Imperials as part of his disadvantages.  I really am sorry if this presents a complication for the party, but Graves' nature is to fight until he dies.  To go against this would be as bad as anyone else in the party ignoring their core disadvantages.

I personally think an adventure where we escape from Imperial control has a lot of potential for fun and I don't think that was the MAIN concern of the group regarding the last game session.  I believe the MAIN concern expressed was the seemingly arbitrary nature of the challenges we faced with no, or very small, chances of overcoming those challenges, and the very heavy penalties for failure.  Here's my list of challenges, how we screwed ourselves, and the potential ways we could have overcome them had we been given enough information:

1. The EMP blast coming out of the gate; We did choose to position our ship directly in front of the gate, to paraphrase Casey, "Lined up to enter." However, a) no one's Danger Sense activated (possibly because Callen suppressed it), b) the "presence" guiding Callen didn't warn him of possible danger, and c) the Lilith is a top of the line, Highest tech available, spaceship meant to withstand the wacky forces found in space, like EMPs (Potentially the force from the gate, as it was from the heart of a star, was much more than the designers envisioned we would be facing).

2. The Solar Flare bringing in ships to investigate; No one asked about the potential dangers of others seeing the solar flare, we busily went about repairing the ship with no thought of danger approaching.  a) Why did no one realize that "we set off some EM pulses powerful enough for Sauron to see all the way back on Terra" when we were so close to enemy held territory?  My character is as oblivious to this potential for this kind of stuff as I am, but did anyone on the ship get any sort of a chance to realize this fact when/IF it would have been obvious to them?  I get that we are supposed to be the ones asking questions and if we don't think of it our character usually won't, but that only goes so far.  For example, a person raised on a space station would never forget certain air-lock procedures, but I have no clue what those would be.  To harm my character because I, as a player, forget something as natural as breathing to my character strikes me as unfair in a game mechanics way.  b) If we had known of how imminent we might have had visitors we could have focused on repairing the shuttle and used it to evacuate or push the Lilith to a hidden location.  c) Knowing when we might have had visitors would have changed the priority of what we worked on or how we might have prepared for boarders.  

3. The Imperial Firey Class Ship and Shuttle Boarding; We could have been more aggressive on how we handled the shuttle and their crew, if we had charged into the shuttle we might have taken it with the confined space and our better tech/skills.  a) Talking with Eric on the drive home he said he thought we understood that our position relative to the Firey made it possible for Callen to open the gate destroying/disabling both enemy ships while leaving us unscathed.  I explicitly remember asking about this possibility when Eric rolled for our position and Callen’s relative power level and was told that there was NO WAY to do this, that there was no way to open the gate and only get the Imperials in the blast.  I know you guys hate retconing anything with the passion normally reserved by Imperial Inquisitors for finding Heretics, but when the GM gives directly incorrect information I think there is an argument for some kind of provision to be made.  In this instance I think the die has been cast and no one will agree to turn back time, but in the future this has got to be addressed.  b) If we had destroyed/incapacitated the Firey and shuttle i) we might have then thought about getting the hell out of there as I talked about in 2; ii) the Bravo wouldn’t have been damaged from the fight with the Firey and would have stood up better against the attack from the 5k D-ton; and iii) we would have had more time before the 5k D-ton arrived to repair or run.

4. Getting our asses kicked by the 5k D-ton cruiser; We chose to board the Bravo knowing there was little or nothing we could do to affect the outcome and although we were told to “buckle in and sit tight” we still had a choice whether to sit passively while events unfolded or offer suggestions and take actions of our own.  I’m not going to go in depth into the possibilities on this one, but here’s a few a) use the Lilith as a bomb/booby trap, b) lure the 5k into the range of the gate, c) use the Lilith as cover for the Bravo, d) pull in close to the 5k, release some debris, magnetically lock on to the back of the 5k’s bridge, then detach and float away when it releases its garbage before it makes the jump to hyperspace.

Feel free to disagree or point out where I made a mistake.

I paid good character points for Serendipity to have stuff "just happen seemingly randomly" in my favor and I like it that way.  It makes the game fun and interesting for me.  Even without that I think it makes sense that there were Colonial vessels in the system looking for chances to strike at targets of opportunity and that the Empire would send vessels to investigate.  The Bravo took about 3 days to reach us and had been watching us for 2 days before the Imperials attacked.  A 5,000 D-ton cruiser, all by itself, unreachable by immediate support is a pretty juicy target that Colonial Forces might not be able to resist.  As U-boats patrolling the Atlantic during WWII have shown us, this is a great tactic during war.  However, I don't think this is what will happen though and I'm fine with that.  I think Eric has something much more interesting planned.

Eric has created a setting with events and happenings to serve as an interesting landscape for our characters to adventure in.  Our characters were not created to serve the setting, the setting was created to serve the characters and it wouldn’t exist without them.  Our characters are the central figures of this story.  Stories are told about the characters that have fantastic and amazing experiences, not some dirt farmer on Grammency who died of an infected toenail at 86.  I think I’m drastically in the minority, but I don’t have a problem with the GM tweaking things we have no knowledge are happening or rewriting what happened to make the game more fun.  For me how fantastic or believable the setting is doesn't matter as long as it APPEARS internally consistent.  I have played in a dozen different gaming groups and this group has the strongest desire for internal consistency and “let the dice fall where they may” I have ever seen.  This isn't a bad thing, it’s what brings this group the most enjoyment, and since you have all been kind enough to let me join you I will do my best to gracefully follow what the group wants.  

I would also like to say that of all the groups I have played with Eric is the best GM I have ever experienced.  His attention to detail, preparation, consistency, ability to improvise, imagination, and encyclopedic knowledge of the setting and rules far out strip anyone else I have ever played with and I think we should give him a hell of a lot more credit than we do.  Now, how many hours of on the job training in Erotic Art (Handjob) is that worth again?


Last edited by Tybreagus on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:01 pm

In reply to Jake, the imperial ship appeared just after the 7 day mark, because the ship performed an in system jump from fleet command near new Albion after they detected the strange flare. The Wyvern class colonial SDB arrived in the area on about day 4 but never approached because they knew they had no backup in the area and didnt want to expose themselves. The Fiery gunboat was sorta nearby and arrived in the area on day 5, and spent a little over a day evaluating before moving up to investigate the Lillith.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by grumpit on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:06 pm

I think Eric is a fantastic GM. My only objection came from the perceived "feeling" that everything that happened after we jumped into the New Detroit system was out of the control of the players and that every time we made any progress something else bad happened to dash the hope away.

I absolutely don't want a Mulligans or retcon anything. Sometimes bad things just happen and it's out of your control.

I really hope we are captured and have to do something that I wish the group did more of, actually roleplay our characters, just like we did during our death march to Dul Guldur.
Relax everyone I have a plan.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:20 pm

Reply to Hyrum: from my cell phone so be forgiving. ☺

1: My bad regarding the linear nature of this challenge. In retrospect I could have offered more explicit "games" meathods of saving yourselves. Additionally there was a miscommunication about the ships proximity to the gate I take responsibility for. I ascribe much of what happened here to me waiting for the players to do things that seemed apparent from inside my head, but on reflection were obscure and not obvious to the players.

2: Warning the players about arriving ships: This issue is binary. If I were to casually mention this as a possability to any of the players then it would remove any uncertainty or dramatic tension and the players would take it for a certainty. "The gm wouldnt mention it if it wasn't going to happen." Several of the players at the table were clever and experienced enough to anticipate the possibility, so I determined to let that play out naturally. I make no secret of the fact that this campaign is designed to be very challenging and difficult compared to other games I have run.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:33 pm

Continued:
3: Already brought up the gate position. As far as a retcon goes, I can't do it when the player makes an error, and I cant do it when I make an error, at least not after the fact. I trust the players, and hope you guys trust me. I wont intentionally try and screw you guys in an unfair way and will follow the rules. I generally rely on you guys to manage your character points and credits etc without looking over your shoulders. We'll both make mistakes sometimes. I beleive its always better to take those mistakes and make storylines out of them rather than trying to retcon and story thats been told.

4:Colonial rescue / changing things behind the scenes etc. My view here is failing in game, or getting captured or losing a ship and all the other bad things from my point of view as a player are not things to avoid. Sure I get the players want to avoid them and rightfully so. But when I see things go wrong, and the players brought low I get excited. That's the heroes journey! What hero has never been brought low in any story? Would you care to watch a movie or read a book where the writer has a hero that can overcome any challange? Always darkest before the dawn. Part of my job is to make sure it is dark, and there is a real risk that dawn never comes, while still hoping the heroes pull through.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Tybreagus on Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Agent Tash wrote:4:Colonial rescue / changing things behind the scenes etc.  My view here is failing in game, or getting captured or losing a ship and all the other bad things from my point of view as a player are not things to avoid.  Sure I get the players want to avoid them and rightfully so.  But when I see things go wrong, and the players brought low I get excited.   That's the heroes journey!  What hero has never been brought low in any story?  Would you care to watch a movie or read a book where the writer has a hero that can overcome any challange?  Always darkest before the dawn.  Part of my job is to make sure it is dark, and there is a real risk that dawn never comes, while still hoping the heroes pull through.


Robert William Service - Carry On

It's easy to fight when everything's right,
   And you're mad with the thrill and the glory;
It's easy to cheer when victory's near,
   And wallow in fields that are gory.
It's a different song when everything's wrong,
   When you're feeling infernally mortal;
When it's ten against one, and hope there is none,
   Buck up, little soldier, and chortle:

Carry on! Carry on!
There isn't much punch in your blow.
You're glaring and staring and hitting out blind;
You're muddy and bloody, but never you mind.
Carry on! Carry on!
You haven't the ghost of a show.
It's looking like death, but while you've a breath,
Carry on, my son! Carry on!

And so in the strife of the battle of life
   It's easy to fight when you're winning;
It's easy to slave, and starve and be brave,
   When the dawn of success is beginning.
But the man who can meet despair and defeat
   With a cheer, there's the man of God's choosing;
The man who can fight to Heaven's own height
   Is the man who can fight when he's losing.

Carry on! Carry on!
Things never were looming so black.
But show that you haven't a cowardly streak,
And though you're unlucky you never are weak.
Carry on! Carry on!
Brace up for another attack.
It's looking like hell, but -- you never can tell:
Carry on, old man! Carry on!

There are some who drift out in the deserts of doubt,
   And some who in brutishness wallow;
There are others, I know, who in piety go
   Because of a Heaven to follow.
But to labour with zest, and to give of your best,
   For the sweetness and joy of the giving;
To help folks along with a hand and a song;
   Why, there's the real sunshine of living.

Carry on! Carry on!
Fight the good fight and true;
Believe in your mission, greet life with a cheer;
There's big work to do, and that's why you are here.
Carry on! Carry on!
Let the world be the better for you;
And at last when you die, let this be your cry:
Carry on, my soul! Carry on!
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Better Quell Jorel on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:22 am

I think Eric is a fantastic GM.

I'll second that motion with as many Doc Ock arms that I can raise all at once.

In response to all that has already been said, I would like to mention two things:

1.) In future, if we want to go out and explore unknown things in the cosmos, we should probably include a scientist of some sort in our employ either as a PC or a hireling. Eric did ask us directly before any of the gate business whether we had any skill with planetology or other science skills. I believe that if we had done this, we would have identified what we were encountering before anything bad happened.  Food for thought for the future. Of course, this only counts if we are able to escape from the Imperium and get another ship and feel it's worth our while to explore another of these so-called gates.

2.) Our current situation has put me into a bit of a predicament as well. I will say that Derek considers himself a jarhead at heart. If the Imperials try to take the ship by force, he will be there with Heber and Hyrum at the air lock waiting for the assault and prepared to fight to the death.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by grumpit on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:41 pm

Well I dont think the GM is under any obligations to prevent the players from committing suicide. If 3 of the PC chose to fight to thier death in an unwinnable battle, its on thier own heads. Callen on the other hand isnt going to be able to surrender fast enough.

Maybe Jake was just dropping hints of what is next character will be.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Better Quell Jorel on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:17 pm

Maybe Jake was just dropping hints of what is next character will be.


That could very well be. We'll all to wait until Saturday to know for sure.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:51 am

1 a)
 b)
 c)
2 a)
 b)

Seems like someone here is an attorney. Wink


1. The EMP blast coming out of the gate....

Standing Wave explicitly told us that the point that this gate led to was not connected to a stellar object. Although caution is always called for when dealing with Chthonian objects (double entendre there), there was no reason to believe that the gate was connected to the heart of a star, and that opening it would unleash nearly incalculable forces. I agree that after that was set in motion there was literally nothing that the PCs could do, as our actions were limited by Callin being controlled by his "angel".

2. The Solar Flare bringing in ships to investigate; a) ...I get that we are supposed to be the ones asking questions and if we don't think of it our character usually won't, but that only goes so far. ...  To harm my character because I, as a player, forget something as natural as breathing to my character strikes me as unfair in a game mechanics way.

I partially agree with you here.


b) If we had known of how imminent we might have had visitors we could have focused on repairing the shuttle and used it to evacuate or push the Lilith to a hidden location.

That was actually a brilliant idea. It came far too late though.


c) Knowing when we might have had visitors would have changed the priority of what we worked on or how we might have prepared for boarders.

Yes, possibly. Marine pong, anyone? Wink


3. The Imperial Firey Class Ship and Shuttle Boarding; a) Talking with Eric on the drive home he said he thought we understood that our position relative to the Firey made it possible for Callen to open the gate destroying/disabling both enemy ships while leaving us unscathed.  I explicitly remember asking about this possibility when Eric rolled for our position and Callen’s relative power level and was told that there was NO WAY to do this

I remember the same thing. A time frame was given for the ship to return into position, but if I recall it was many hours (10?) after the boarding action was to begin.

when the GM gives directly incorrect information I think there is an argument for some kind of provision to be made.  In this instance I think the die has been cast and no one will agree to turn back time, but in the future this has got to be addressed.

I don't think that this is something that could have been retconned at any point, really.


4. Getting our asses kicked by the 5k D-ton cruiser ... we still had a choice whether to sit passively while events unfolded or offer suggestions and take actions of our own.  I’m not going to go in depth into the possibilities on this one, but here’s a few

I think that there was nothing we could do. Casey tried two or three times to offer assistance to the command crew of the SDB Bravo, but was curtly rebuffed each time.


pull in close to the 5k, release some debris, magnetically lock on to the back of the 5k’s bridge, then detach and float away when it releases its garbage before it makes the jump to hyperspace.

Well ok, THAT probably would have worked. Very Happy


I think I’m drastically in the minority, but I don’t have a problem with the GM tweaking things we have no knowledge are happening or rewriting what happened to make the game more fun.

I don't think you're in the minority on this. As an on again/off again GM, I think that the GM must be willing to continually revise his game to make it work better as the plot progresses, even if he must depart dramatically from his written plan.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:54 am

grumpit wrote:My only objection came from the perceived "feeling" that everything that happened after we jumped into the New Detroit system was out of the control of the players and that every time we made any progress something else bad happened to dash the hope away.

Yeah, although hindsight is 20/20, from the perspective of when we knew when we knew it, I think we did pretty well. Especially when we quite expertly repelled the marines boarding our ship. They were much better prepared for an assault than we were for a defense. They knew it, they went in anyway, and they paid the price.


Relax everyone I have a plan.

Let's hear it?
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:58 am

Agent Tash wrote:1 ... I ascribe much of what happened here to me waiting for the players to do things that seemed apparent from inside my head, but on reflection were obscure and not obvious to the players.

This is a very real problem that is very hard to overcome as GM.


Agent Tash wrote:2: Warning the players about arriving ships...

I would mostly agree with you there.


Agent Tash wrote:3: Already brought up the gate position...

I don't really think that that issue is really a big deal.


Agent Tash wrote:4 ... while still hoping the heroes pull through.

You're doing it wrong then! I think I can help out with that. Wink
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:02 am

Bionic Derek wrote:2.) Our current situation has put me into a bit of a predicament as well. I will say that Derek considers himself a jarhead at heart. If the Imperials try to take the ship by force, he will be there with Heber and Hyrum at the air lock waiting for the assault and prepared to fight to the death.


Well, then. Derek wants to fight to the death. Graves and Gorikak also might do so. Callin wants to surrender. Oh what will Casey do? Idea
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Better Quell Jorel on Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:09 am

Derek wants to fight to the death.

It's more than wanting to fight to the death. Derek is fighting to the death. It's been ingrained into the very fabric of his soul. You could say, it's his call to duty... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing ha, duty...

Oh what will Casey do?


What will you do?
What will you do?
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by grumpit on Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:56 pm

I have 3 plans and they are of course contingent on us being captured and taken on board the P.F. Sloan.
1. I am going to try and connect with / make a plea throught the elder sign to the "angel" on my back to give me the strength to mentally dominate the crew like I did back on our ship and take back to Kenning. This is a fun idea but highly unlikely to work.

2.try telling the Imperials the truth about almost everything and hope they will work with us on continuing our mission. I'm a bit more hopeful for this to work though still unlikely

3. Blame everything on Casey the butcher.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Warren McGregor on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:22 am

.... bastards!! I wake up to this? Callin and I are no longer BFFs.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:00 am

Warren McGregor wrote:.... bastards!!  I wake up to this?  Callin and I are no longer BFFs.


Well, now you've done it. You posted on this thread, and now have no plausible deniability when you "can't" show up for the game. Wink
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Casey on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:02 am

grumpit wrote:I have 3 plans and they are of course contingent on us being captured and taken on board the P.F. Sloan.
1. I am going to try and connect with / make a plea throught the elder sign to the "angel" on my back to give me the strength to mentally dominate the crew like I did back on our ship and take back to Kenning. This is a fun idea but highly unlikely to work.

2.try telling the Imperials the truth about almost everything and hope they will work with us on continuing our mission. I'm a bit more hopeful for this to work though still unlikely

3. Blame everything on Casey the butcher.


1. Okay. Won't work though.

2. Not bad, but you'll just get dissected anyway.

3. Now you're talking. Duchess Delphine will reward you greatly.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Warren McGregor on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:44 pm

I can surgically implant weapons/items into us to help us escape if we decide to get "caught".
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by grumpit on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:08 pm

Warren McGregor wrote:I can surgically implant weapons/items into us to help us escape if we decide to get "caught".

Too late, we are already captured.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:01 pm

Welp, recap on what happened at the very end of the last game so players can plan:
The SDB Wyvern you all jumped on board got hit with about 40 or so missiles, taking enough damage to need 3 roles on the ship damage table. One was cargo, another was fuel (dosen't matter), and the third was the bridge being taken out.

The ship is not currently being controlled, but all systems are on line more or less. There are 50 more missiles about to hit in the next wave next turn (each turn is 20 minutes in space combat).

The Wyvern Gunboat is a very heavy ultradense build with 4,000 DR (40 cDR) and 150,000 HP (1,500 cHP). That is compared to the Lilith's 200 DR (2 cDR) and 37,500 HP (375 cHP).

Players with naval or pirate backgrounds would be aware of the basic stats on a Wyvern Gunboat.

It has Accel 6 g, radical stealth, underwater operations package, 4 TL 11 (3rd edition) heavy laser turrets, and a crew of 15. It also has command bridge level sensors and electronics.

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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:08 pm

Casey, you are aware of the basic stats on a P.F. Sloan class Fleet Escort.

The P. F. Sloan Class fleet escort is intended for routine fleet security and support. Fleet Escorts are assigned in quantity for local or system defense any time that several squadrons or a fleet are present. If it is remembered that Sloans are lightly armed and armored, then their performance can be seen as admirable, although they can not withstand major engagements.

Its a TL 12 (3rd edition) destroyer. 5,000 Dtons.
Main weapons: Missile bays
numerous smaller weapons
Accel:3 G
Jump 4
Crew: 40
It carries 1 Heavy Fighter, and 1 Pinnance that acts as ships boat.
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

Post by Agent Tash on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:18 pm

Note that I am using missile frangibility rules, so each missile would do 5d-1(10) cDamage (about 16.5). All 50 hitting the next turn will do about 600ish cDam after armor (requiring another 4 roles on the table).
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Re: What Happened in the Game on 02/26/17?

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